Map pins meaning

this is the most simple question for any one entering to the kiwi SDR map . een so many years using hat I m still not 100% sure for the color coding. I m not sure if there is any info available in the net So Let's now rehearse the color coding

·      Green pin - available kiwi

·      blue pin - web SDRs

·      yellow pin : SDR unavailable    

·      dark brown : low SNR kiwi

·      light brown : high SNR kiwi

Sometimes the map site shows all the sites with blue color !What happens?

Is something that I m missing except the above ?



  • Just some thoughts on the subject.

    I wish the map and listings could provide a bit more information about the performance of the web sdr's, and also the KiWi selection map markers in the TDoA extension.

    I admit I'm a bit biased about this, as one of my KiWi's is often number one on the list at night time, and several others that I have helped with are in the top 20 for a lot of the time.

    However bragging rights aside, there is a serious point, especially when trying to use the TDoA extension.

    I'm a bit spoilt with my KiWi's, and often hear stuff that I just can't hear on others. So when I come to try for a TDoA run, it takes me ages to find suitable KiWi's that have a decent enough noise floor.

    I do this by selecting them on the map, and then listening to each one in turn, in order to establish if it has got a good enough SNR to be usable. if the poorer performers could be filtered out more easily, then it would make it a lot quicker to find good ones before the signal to be TDoA'd vanished into the ether.

    My suggestions would be.

    On the linkfanel snr list, sort the KiWi's initially by the Internal (new) score, and within each of those bands sort them again by Internal HF (new).

    A the moment they are only sorted by the first column, so similarly ranked KiWis may not be ordered by the second Internal HF value, which further helps to determine their overall worth.

    In addition, do way with the External (classic) rating which has now depreciated, and is at best misleading, if not outright wrong.

    My personal observation is that KiWi's with a score of greater than 35dB are excellent, those with 30dB or more are generally good, 20 to 30dB are often usable, and those under 20dB are poor, the ones under 10dB often don't seem to have an antenna connected.

    Maybe some further levels of colour coding or shapes, could be added to the map pins, to differentiate between these S/N values more clearly, as the current shading is a bit too subtle to be able to easily differentiate between values.

    Could this coding then also be applied to the TDoA KiWi markers ? Or maybe if not a truly dynamic real time indication, perhaps a value averaged over a period of time and occasionally updated ?

    None of the above is critical, but I think it would help in the selection of the best KiWi's to use.



  • Asa follow up, I posted some suggestions regarding SNR ratings on linkfanel Github page. Including some example graphs and observations that folks my find interesting, or wish to comment on.



  • There are some Kiwis that have excellent SNR ratings yet always seem to be loaded with spurs and noise, while there are others with poor SNR ratings that are seemingly fine. You really have to check all of them in a certain area (if there is more than one to choose from) and judge for yourself. A poorly rated one might be excellent in a certain range of frequencies, yet trashed everywhere else.

  • Yes that's the problem.

    If you take a look at the SNR graphs in the link I previously posted, you can clearly see the day / night variation on 'good' KiWis but this is not evident on a 'bad' one with spurs and noise.

    By measuring a KiWi's SNR variation over a 24 Hour period, you get a good idea of which ones have lots of noise or low signal quality, plus you are comparing like with like over a whole day, and not just at a particular instant in time, when some are in daylight and others are at night.

    You could argue that this would only be valid when propagation conditions support it, but this is already true of the existing rating system, and at least it would affect all KiWi's so it would be a level playing field.

    Just my thoughts to promote further disdcussion.



  • A few stations, mainly using KiwiSDRs and among the top WSPR spotters in the world, post their noise data to the so that plots of the previous 24 hours can be viewed.

    These graphs show diurnal variation wherein the day/night performance particularly for higher HF bands gives good insight into station performance. The shape of the noise and absence of sudden steps which can inidcate a local problem are useful to confirm good operation.

    The goal of a good receive system is to have SNR determined by propagated noise rather than something else. This requires that the noise in the radiation resistance of the antenna system dominates all other (unwanted) sources and the received SNR has reached the limit.

    Glenn n6gn

  • @rz3dvp Ah, thanks, I missed that option. I changed it to allow multiple connections from the same IP.

    It is still yellow on the map. And when I try TDOA it still says "all channels in use" even though both channels are free.

  • edited January 2023

    Hi @HB9TMC, now I can connect to your KiwiSDR :)

    It's on 8 ch mode and realy connected users=6 ("digiskr"), but your "users_max=2":

    Check your KiwiSDR admin page, you need to fix this value to 8. I think you see "users=2" only because "users" value cannot be greater than "users_max". When you fix "users_max" to 8 you will see "users=6" when 2 RX channels are free and your pin on the map will be red. :)

    For TDoA you need check "Admin - Control - Number of simultaneous channels available for connection by non-Kiwi apps" = "8" and "Admin - Extensions - TDoA" enter number channels for TDoA "2" or "1" for your setup.

  • Non-kiwi apps was already set to 8.

    But I had set the option "Number of channels not requiring a password even if password set" to 2, assuming the number would only include remote connections.

    I removed the password protection and now everything seems to be fine. Thanks for the help @rz3dvp

  • Hi Glenn,

    I have used WSPR Daemon with good results, but unless you have set aside some KiWi channels to allow it to run, it's not really applicable to the average KiWi installation.

    Although not calibrated against a known noise reference, the graphs I have obtained using the standard KiWi SNR stats are almost as detailed as the ones I obtained using KiWi Daemon, in therms of indicating propagation changes. But unlike WSPR Daemon, it's a background process and doesn't require additional resources such as a RasPi (scarce at the moment), or consume precicous receive channels in order to work.

    In addition I feel that the use of WSPR is beginning to wane somewhat, and FT8 is now taking over the world of Amateur radio. In fact if FT8 had a mechanism for reporting transmitted power and a full 6 digit locator, as does WSPR, I think WSPR would be in further decline for use as a propagation indicator.

    With this in mind, it would be nice if the KiWi could support more of the JT/FT modes as an extension, in addition to WSPR, as I believe the libraries are available, but I guess it's not particularly high on the adgenda for John these days.



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